Recently my brother, who is also a church planter, wrote a letter to his boss asking some tough questions. The letter was written so well that I asked if I could repost it here. I’ve removed some information that is personal and altered the names, but for the most part, here is the letter reproduced in full (after the jump):
This is my squeaky wheel email.
I remember before I had even moved to [the conference], more than 10 years ago now, we came back to make a presentation to the Executive Committee when it met on the Western Slope. It would have been April or May of 1998. I remember you saying (my paraphrase recollection) that you were going to move resources (i.e. pastors) from the areas where no growth was happening to the Front Range where growth was happening. I remember it well, because that was also my vision for the church. And when you sat down next to me as someone else got up to talk, I said, “Please don’t ever move away from the RMC.”
I guess I would like some help understanding. Has that happened? I could be wrong about this, and I know that pastoral resources have gone down some in the outlying areas, but it feels like it is because of funding issues, not vision of moving to a better area.
I was told by someone during pastors’ meetings, who wished to remain anonymous, that even though I didn’t “deserve,” according to the maintenance-based staffing formula, two pastors, I should still have that pastoral salary. Here’s the reasons he said why: No other church in this conference is baptizing the number of people I have been over the last 5 years. And even though the numbers in the maintenance-based formula don’t add up, it seems like when something happens, we ought to be celebrating that, not punishing that. And if Team1 is really a priority, we should be helping to make it happen, not hamstringing those churches.
Yesterday I found out from [someone] that [a certain city] has only 8,000 people in the community and the church has only 80 people [attending]. The other church supposedly has 20 and going down. Although it was probably time for [my associate] to leave [this church family] for his own good and for ours. I’m talking today about the funding of a salaried position. [My associate] is only an example of what appears to be a systemic problem in the system. [He and his wife] are leaving, likely to [another church], and they will be watching over less people there than they were watching over here. Yet, the [conference] was going to make us fund the entire salary, but they are going to get their entire salary covered by the conference there – in a smaller church, a smaller community. Neither the church, nor the community is growing with the numbers we have here. I could be wrong, but it appears as if less is more.
I realize there are historical issues to deal with. I realize there are other extenuating political issues that must be dealt with also. I also realize that I’m asking for some very tough decisions, or I’m asking you to talk to me and help me understand why this would happen. I don’t think I understand it right now.
To be fair, you did tell me when we first talked about [him] leaving, that you were going to see if you could find me some money to help hire someone. I believe that the church will be ready for that by November/December – after they grieve [my associate's] loss, and “new” money comes in. You have continually reminded us that pastors can only really take care of around 150 or so people. The Adventure is running at 250 right now. It seems to me that the momentum loss of losing a pastor could send us backwards very fast.
I am willing to come to the Executive Committee to help them see the inequity of this situation because I realize as you seek to move them to a governance model, this is really not their decision, but yours. But I realize that they aren’t there right now, either. So, I am willing to come and present to them the raw numbers – I don’t think you can argue with that, except out of historical and maintenance reasons. It is my belief, and I could be wrong, that you cannot do what needs to be done in the 21st century with a 19 or 20th century model of maintenance.
WDYT?
My brother did a great job of outlining the problem. These were exactly the same questions I had when we left Colorado Springs. We had baptized about 50 people and had about 30 preparing for baptism when we left. Attendance was averaging around 100 people per week and a large percentage (40%) were not members of Adventism, or even Christians.
If pastoral support had been withdrawn from two or three small churches, and the salaries applied to Common Ground, less people would have been hurt and/or affected than the loss of full-time pastoral support at Common Ground – which is now less than a third of it’s former self.
17 Comments
September 12, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Interesting story. All too familiar. In an interesting sort of way, I am in the same situation. If the maintenance staffing formula were strictly applied to the Hollywood Church we would qualify for 1/2 a pastor, even though the attendance had doubled to 150 and we’ve baptized about a dozen in the past two years, our members are not the kind with stable middle-class jobs. Many are students, homeless, actors and musicians working minimum wage jobs on the side or waiting tables. We just don’t have a strong tithe base yet.
Thankfully the conference has continued to fund us for a full-time pastor. I know my adminstration understands the importance of a missionary presence in Hollywood. It’s just curious to me that we don’t apply the same standard to new church starts. If you baptized 50 people over a couple years’ time, I don’t see how that isn’t unheard-of success.
September 13, 2008 at 2:35 am
Wow. I am a bit speechless. But then again, it really comes as no surprise.
Obviously the church administration has to come to terms with the blaring reality that our church is in a tail spin. If indeed the stat is correct that for every 1.8 pastors in the field we have one employee in the conference, union, division, or GC, then we must wake up and smell the Postum (which, ironically enough Post recently announced it will no longer be producing).
While I am sure that I am preaching to the choir here, it seems to me that policies have to be settled by now and the funds to keep those untouchable/unseeable folks employed needs to come to a stretching halt.
September 13, 2008 at 4:01 am
The word systemic is very important because a systems approach to this problem and its solution is the best hope for even getting the problem on the agenda.
Most administrators are unable or unwilling to to agree that staffing is the problem. There is little room in their system for that conclusion. They might give a speech or even privately agree with you that it is important, but they know that they have to answer to another group/constituency that requires maintenance thinking.
It would be a mistake to call these administrators names or denigrate them in any way. They are in a system that seeks stasis and maintenance. Even innovative pastors are in that system. Some of these administrators are courageous and willing to foster innovation. I believe your president to be one of those. No one here is calling anyone any names by the way, but this is an easy path to follow once we start venting systemic frustrations. That is one of the very things we need to steer clear of. We need to see administrators as having the best of intentions and working very hard to see the church succeed. If we don’t, we will dismiss them and pave our own path, avoiding the cracks in their concrete. That is a ticket to an unfulfilling ministry at best, and no ministry at all at worst.
A systems approach does not stop there though. It continues to look at the problems as they are raised, categorically investigating and understanding them. It builds awareness of the problems and then works toward consent if not consensus in making changes.
I agree with part of what Matthew said that “church administration has to come to terms with the blaring reality that our church is in a tail spin”.
This statement makes sense to us here on the blog, but will it get a hearing beyond us. I don’t think most administrators think or talk that way at all. They have the solutions in their minds and if you listen to them and follow what they promote, you can know what makes sense to them. And I haven’t heard any of them talking about improved staffing. Many of them say things that leave me questioning what they think the real problems are. So coming to terms with this blaring reality is the problem that immediately faces us.
The first job of a leader these days may well be the responsibility of naming the problem. Most leaders are more managers by training and experience. And so they apply their style, approach and techniques to solving the problem.
And they are not seeing the same problem as you and your brother have described here. In fact, I don’t think they see the local church as the vehicle for a solution to the problem. If they did, resources would be more plentiful. Instead, they are doled out per policy. They have so many places to source, that it is almost impossible for them to feel anything but resource impoverished.
So the first job is to do what your brother has done. Lead with clarity and make the problem clear. I actually think he can do better at that. He’s in a position to make the case almost as well as any pastor because of the Adventure’s history. In some senses, that church is an experiment in staffing and church structure.
We need that experiment to continue to grow and prosper. It simply won’t happen if the problem is not clarified and distributed to leaders in a compelling story. And that story has value in so far as it is a model for future Adventist churches.
We must become good at dialogue with those who make decisions at the conference level and we must share compelling stories of change that will lead to systemic change, not just local change for a few churches in each conference, but the entire body of churches over time.
You both have a heart for people who have yet to hear the Good News. That is the common motivator we share with all concerned. It will be the only motivator to stay focused on long term change.
Have a good Sabbath and be of good courage.
Peter Senge is the author to go to for understanding Systemic Problems and Change.
September 13, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Great letter Rog, & Gary, thanks for sending it to me.
I have just a few minutes so I will keep this shorter than I’d like.
I believe RMC has one of this Division’s best presidents. I can’t come close to stating the problem as eloquently as Peter did, so I’ll just say that Jim B. is caught in a machine that often seems to force these types of tough decisions. Yes, leadership can modify & fine tune this machine, but it still is the only vehicle we have and it’s not likely (nor wise) to abandon it. It certainly isn’t perfect, but it has taken us places many other denominations envy.
Perhaps if the machine cannot help us reach our staffing needs, we need to design creative ways of making it happen within our local congregations. 24-Seven doesn’t have the attendance (120 to 175 weekly between the 2 campuses) nor the baptisms, tithe or offering that The Adventure does. We do have, I strongly believe, the most visionary Conference leadership in this Division. We started out four years ago with 2 full time salaries! No church yet & 2 FTEs! But, budget constraints & a slower growth rate than we expected forced them to cut us to 1.5 FTEs. I don’t blame them at all. I was actually surprised they hadn’t done it sooner.
So, we hired someone locally 1/2 time (before we dropped to 1.5 actually) and we got back to basically where we were. Then recently my awesome associate, Matthew Gamble, moves, our UW campus needs a lot more attention to get to the next level, and we are working on starting our third campus in Auburn. I’m back to 1.5 staff and not seeing how I’m going to get everything done. So, I look again to our congregation, see awesome, talented, committed young people everywhere and decide to try something new to build our staff instead of just replacing our Conference sponsored 1/2 time person.
We are starting a new school in Oct., Church Planting & Adventist Leadership School (CPALS). This school will have 4 full time & 1 part time stipend paid students/staff. Our awesome Conference leaders & EC understood the vision & is putting in money equivalent to about 90% of an FTE and 24-Seven will need to increase its staffing expense by about $1,000 per month. But, we would have done this school with 2 full time people if our fantastic Conference hadn’t been willing or able to help us. We’ll have a total staff of 5 1/2 and these students/staff are on fire to live all out for God and help make 24-Seven grow. Praise God!
I guess what I’m saying is we can’t let anything stand in our way. The machine can only do so much. If we really believe that the local church is where real change happens then let’s expect the changes to happen there. Church planters are extremely creative and God wants us to succeed. Getting past these artificial boundaries we think are holding us back is absolutely vital! You know the old cliché is really true, “Problems are just opportunities in disguise.”
I love you guys – you totally rock!
God bless!
September 13, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I feel bad for you guys. Many words could be written to explain why, but I’ll spare you! Chuckle, chuckle.
September 13, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Another good point that martyt7 touched on is that it is a huge stretch to think that the average (or even above average) church administrator, wonderful as they are, will think that pastoral staffing is the answer to the problem of church growth. Indeed, it is not the only answers, right? But while the Seminary is busy teaching an extreme view of “the laity will finish the work” they are perhaps unwittingly undercutting the one group of men and women who came create change and growth in the churches.
While I was at the seminary I can to the realization that the church moved from a pro-laity movement (which I am all in favor of) to an anti-clergy movement. This is more than a practical problem. It is an emotional and morale problem. How do you spiritually sustain a staff of pastors out in the field doing the truly hard work of leading congregations to be witnesses to the gospel when you are at the same time telling them they are the main problem?
September 13, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Great comments everyone! @Ryan, you’re right, there are some risks being taken in “adjusting” staffing outside the parameters of the staffing formulae. In my opinion, we are basing those staffing decisions and formulae on the wrong metrics. Instead of membership, we should base it on attendance. Instead of tithe returned, maybe we could base it on outreach, evangelism, ???? We need to start basing our benchmarks on things that truly matter to the kingdom. Bodies, Buildings, and Bucks are not the answer to the staffing questions.
@Matthew, you are right about the ratios of admin to ministry. However, in my experience outside of the denomination, it’s not that different in the “real world.” Due to the nature of living in a bureaucratic, litigious society, there is a certain amount of record-keeping, accounting, and mindless paper-shuffling that must occur. I don’t know that anyone has an answer to this. Yet, with that said, I recently ran the numbers on the percentage of money spent in administration vs. the amount spent in the provision of service. We do not fall within the guidelines established by the non-profit fund-raisers who count these things.
@Steve I totally agree that we need to find funding sources outside of normal channels. I’ve known this for years. @Ron helped me to understand that. However, I naively spent most of my time in evangelism, ministry, administration, team-building, and leadership. After 80 hours a week, I had little time left over for financial development. In retrospect, I might have spent my first year or two establishing a financial base outside of tithe dollars.
@martyt7 As usual, you speak with wisdom and experience. I appreciate you adding to this conversation.
@Ryan you raise a really good question. I remember leaving Russell Burrill’s Church Growth and Evangelism class and talking in the hallway with other second-career pastors. We were excited about motivating the laity to do what needs to be done. The fact of the matter is that most people look at tithe as their payment for the services we provide. The more they “pay” the more they expect. The idea that pastors are primarily responsible, yet the primary problem – this is exactly the attitude I left my previous post feeling.
Though we had baptized more people than the majority of churches in the NAD; though we had about 50% of our attendance composed of unchurched, non-believing, non-SDAs, I still left with the feeling that I hadn’t done enough and hadn’t done my job correctly; though all the research will tell you that most pastors can only handle a congregation of about 150 people (being an introvert, my number is probably smaller), we still tell pastors that if they don’t grow big enough to obtain more staff, it’s their fault. That just hurts.
@Ron Thanks for chiming in. However, sometimes teamwork and community trumps the task at hand.
Recently, I came to the conclusion that church is NOT a standing army ready to do battle against the Gates of Hell. This was a huge realization for me. I don’t know how I missed it, but churches just want to be family – they don’t want to change their world.
In the same light, just yesterday I realized that my church is not looking for a leader, they are looking for a chaplain. They don’t want me to be the eldest child, setting the course and direction; they want me to be the middle child – the peacemaker.
I’m still trying to wrap my mind around these epiphanies…
Thanks again everyone for chiming in!
September 13, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Gary, so where does that leave you? Are you okay being a chaplain or “the middle child” (great metaphor, by the way)?
September 13, 2008 at 9:43 pm
If Steve is right, you are not going to get more help for staffing. Not for a while anyhow. I read that between the lines in his comment. Is that your take Steve? I assume it is. And you are in a conference that is attempting to increase your support for staffing. If you were to rate the conferences by the amount of funding and the support for staffing for church plants, I don’t know if it would be any better anywhere else.
This probably does mean that you will need to seek funding elsewhere. In fact, look closely at every level of our church organization and you can find this scramble to increase funding above traditional sources.
This is also where Senior pastors have found themselves in the most trouble. Once they start asking for a redistribution of tithe funds, they hit a wall. I can think of several pastors who have left or been encouraged to leave over this issue. Probably best to avoid it pragmatically speaking.
So you have to find funding elsewhere. And this is a new job for many pastors/church planters. But it is a reality. So yes Gary, you are going to have to take on more responsibility in this area.
Listen to Hybels or Maxwell about Stewardship of funds and the pastors role and you will be compelled to agree that it is a critical function of the leader. Nehemiah had to solve both functions in order to accomplish his mission. He found funds from the king and staff among the people.
I have to chime in and agree with Ryan’s concern about the anticlericism that seems to be out there. I do hope that it will get better, but I witnessed a period where it seemed like getting rid of full time pastors was the silver bullet. I haven’t seen much of it from members, but other quarters. I don’t believe that thinking got very far, but it was very distracting, even destructive I’m afraid.
And Ron, stop chuckling and come back to teaching. I’m sure your frustration level is higher than anyones, but your ability to coach/teach is incredible. Anyone who’s been around you for five minutes knows that. You have made the point about our churches future and new church plants so clear and compelling that I know many miss your passion.
Ryan’s last question is where this conversation is headed, it’s about action. What are you guys going to do next? I’m praying for you and your thinking right now. The answers you come up with are important and have consequences beyond your ministries.
September 14, 2008 at 12:46 am
I’m really enjoying this thread. It’s not often I see so many visionaries sharing their thought in such detail like this. Thanks again Gary & Rog!
Marty – I really am impressed with your thoughts. No, I don’t expect to get more funding for FTEs & really would feel guilty about taking these resources from other vital needs in our Conference.
You’ve also said something I think we can all agree upon – RON!
Ron – I miss your leadership, coaching & fellowship. You have many Conference Presidents and pastors who love and support you; perhaps there could be a way to get MC recognized as an official supporting ministry of the Adventist Church now that certain leaders are gone & the shock for some has worn off. I’m not sure if you’d want that, but it would be awesome if it could happen.
Ryan – I hate that I have to fund raise while I’m preparing for it, but when people get on board and miracles start happening it’s fantastic. You are right, stewardship is a necessary and import part of being a pastor and leader.
Gary – I understand your frustration. It takes years to see the fruits of discipleship & teaching (at least with my feeble attempts). I as see it, years 1 – 3 are just working with your people and repeating the message of what Christ is seeking for us over and over. Then, like a light bulb going on, people start to get it; dynamic ministries & efforts spring up from the much cultivated soil, passion builds and becomes contagious, and dramatic life change happens. Then, we must grow as leaders learning where to guide and where to just get out of the way. Soon lay leaders will emerge that will help disciple the next 1-3 year crop of leaders.
I must slightly disagree with some of the comments here about pastors. No, we shouldn’t think that eliminating pastors would serve any good purpose, but we ARE too often the problem. I’ve seen many, if not most pastors possess one of three characteristics that will almost certainly limit a church from being anything other than a self-centered social club.
1) Professional arrogance – “We’re the professionals and the laity have to be taught by the pros.” “My members are lazy and/or will never change.” “It’s not done right if I don’t do it myself.” Though this may be the case at times, this attitude manifests a type of contempt that can be perceived by those who have plenty to offer and teach us. Thus, they leave or shut down and we only attract only those willing to fulfill our views of the laity.
2) Laziness – Not much to say, when have you seen a church have strong sustained growth with a lazy leader? (The exception is when this pastor isn’t the leader).
3) Contempt for authority – I made this mistake in KS/NE. I really didn’t like the Conference’s direction and thought I could belittle some decisions and do things my own way when I didn’t like or understand their policies. When the time came that I needed their backing, why was I so surprised I didn’t get it? Now, I not only support my Conference, I see myself being a part of their team as a higher calling than being part of the team I lead at 24-Seven and I’ve become the WA Conference’s biggest cheer leader (they’re so God-filled, strong as leaders & truly visionaries that they make this very easy to do – give me a “W”, give me an “A”…).
Our congregations will also pick up on our attitude. We’ll attract complainers and find our own authority constantly challenged.
Keys I need to succeed:
*Believe God can really make my church a significant force for His kingdom.
*Love & trust my people and know that God placed them in this body for an important reason. I don’t shape them, the Holy Spirit does; I help release them to His work and support their ministry.
*Be what I want my church to look like. Lead by example – live a Christ-like life.
I hope we keep this going.
God bless my friends!!!
September 14, 2008 at 8:37 am
I think one of the things I miss most about Seminary, doing church as a team (Young & Restless), and the fire service, is the ability to dialog with people who are on track with what is going on around them. As a lone pastor in the field, I lack these opportunities. This is what made Sprout, re:church, and other events so valuable to me.
I totally agree with you Steve! This is a great conversation. This weekend has been a busy one at The Adventure and I’m sure Rog will dive in when he is able. As of yet, I’ve not really published this blog. I was asked to write about what we learned at Common Ground and that was the reason this was first started. Roger’s recent email just said well, what I’d been trying to say in earlier posts.
One thing I have to say in all of this is the maturing I’ve seen in some of you guys. Steve, your last post was humble, thoughtful, and tells me that God is doing great things in your life. Same with you Ryan and Marty – I see men who are committed to being a part of the solution – and I have nothing but admiration for that!
Ryan, in regards to your question, I’m not sure I’m far enough along in the introspection and analysis to give that a fair answer. I’m writing more about that here: http://leadershipmusings.wordpress.com/
However, you know me. I’m a fighter. I won’t give up the fight just because of a little passive resistance or active aggression. Granted, having a family has caused me to reevaluate my priorities. Also, seeing that the organization isn’t exactly in line with my values (e.g. staffing) has also caused me to reevaluate my long term goals.
There are certain things I will never be able to change in my lifetime (minus a supernatural event), so I’ve learned to relax some. Indeed, some of the changes I see are not just arrogantly in those I’m supposed to lead. Quite possibly it is I who needs some radical changes.
It might very well be that I am the one who most benefits from struggles in the moshpit of churchlife. Like Moses, learning to lead involved great brokenness. I’m taking this opportunity to (once again) experience the desert for all it’s worth. Embracing the character development that God puts in front of me.
Marty, you’re right, the Church is unable to provide the staffing I think I need to succeed in 21st Century postmodern evangelism. But I’m OK with that. The Adventist church is one of the fastest growing denominations in the World. A lot of that growth is due to our financial structure and the distribution of dollars.
I can’t be so high-minded to think that North American baptisms bless God more than developing nation baptisms. Ethnicity, race, or socio-economics have nothing to do with the love God has for individuals.
Would I like the opportunity to prove my theories on reaching the unchurched? Of course. Could we have succeeded at Common Ground if we could have added staff at the 150 mark? I have no doubt. Am I bitter, angry, or frustrated? Not anymore. I’ve realized that I didn’t make my case, or it wasn’t the right time. And that’s OK – cuz I’m not in charge.
One of the questions I asked Ron and Jim (and others) before we started the Colorado Springs project was: “Should I spend my first couple of years in fundraising and financial development.” I was told no (by everyone I asked). That wasn’t my job. I think in retrospect, I may have done that anyway. But, hindsight is always 20/20.
Maybe Dave Wood has the right approach. If you want to see great results, move to Africa!
September 14, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Patton’s famous left turn to Bastogne was a model of getting everyone to go in the same direction. Even Patton himself would have preferred to go to Berlin. It was a vital act of parallelism. He(not really he but his staff) turned a whole army of many divisions and lead them to act and work as one. Military strategists know that he did the impossible.
The key word is Parallel. In Patton’s case, the immediate mission was the rescue of the 101st Airborne in the Battle of the Bulge. They accomplished the mission by getting everyone to line up and go in the same direction.
While I wish there was no need for military and the wars that go with militancy, the military has consistently provided the best illustrations of leadership and accomplishing the impossible mission.
What we are talking about here is not dissimilar. We are talking about getting alignment, or parallelism.
If the mission is unclear then the strategies used to achieve the mission will most likely fail or languish. Leadership will act and move in various directions and offer various strategies using various resources, often the ones most comfortable for them.
If our mission is clear, then all forces, prayer, resources and funding can be marshaled to get er done.
Mission is the What.
Strategy is the How.
Jesus is the Who.
Now is the When.
The Great Commission is the Why.
The Church is the Vehicle.
What the church looks like is up for grabs these days. The mission is rarely clear, although we can sometimes come close to agreeing as to what it is. We can all agree that Jesus is the focus, but often we talk more about other things than Him. The Great Commission is not the mission placed on our bulletins or walls or hearts and folks in church are tired of hearing us call out to them that it’s now or never.
To me, it’s like Patton being told he can’t do it, that he’s crazy for even suggesting that he can move his army 100 miles in a few days. He knew it was possible. Difficult, but possible. He also knew that his soldiers would do it because it was difficult and there was a great reward, the lives of other GIs and perhaps a sooner end to the war.
He marshaled the biggest parallel of all times I think. What would it take to do it again?
We need another deep look at our mission. Then we need a major upgrade of our resources, bent on serving that mission. Then we need training for the use of those resources. Then the churches can employ those resources in their localized strategies. Pastors and leaders don’t need to be told how to do it, just where we are headed together and how the other churches around us are getting there. A spirit of cooperation arises out of knowing what is going on in the other church families. We are in this together.
With clarity in the mission, everything else has a chance. Without it, we will go on questioning the value of paid pastors, established churches verses new plants, staff funding, pastoral accountability, the quality of seminary training and on and on.
September 14, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Hey guys, interesting reading…. Didn’t know I would start such a fire-storm…..
@Ron – I agree – the pointing fingers doesnt’ help – we need you to get back up and lead the discussion. We’re chosen a bit of a different path, but we should still be able to interact without the “you guys are part of the most inferior system” attitude. You wouldn’t do that to the Metho-pisto-bapti-terians out there, please don’t do it to us…. We love you – you have mentored us and we’d like it to keep going – together….
@Steve Leddy, I agree with you. I have one of the most visionary presidents and I told him after this email conversation that I had with him that I was still on his side – frustrated, yes – supportive, always.
What I don’t want to do, is keep griping about this until we’re in our 60s and we get in “power” (whatever that is), and then we implement 20-30 year old ideas that we never got the chance to do when we weren’t in “power” (whatever that is). That’s if we don’t run down some other tangent by then….
I just heard of a book that I ordered and just got, called “QBQ.” It’s all about the Question Behind the Question – about personal accountability. In other words, we’ve got to stop complaining (which I don’t hear in this conversation) and start doing what we can do to make a difference. I’m anxiously waiting to read it this week….
So, I don’t have any additional staff right now, but I’m learning a lot about activating the volunteers in people and building teams. People are on fire right now like I haven’t seen them in a couple of years – since it became Jim and Roger’s job to do this, not mine. They now realize that there is no way I can do it alone.
Yesterday we concluded a weekend of combined services with all our campuses and we came away excited. One of my leaders said – who loved and misses Jim – “I’m glad he wasn’t here, that would have been the old The Adventure, today we launched The Adventure into the new….”
It’s clear, I’ve got to figure things out of the ordinary and get myself out of some of the normal church growth boxes and figure things out differently. I’m still VERY intrigued by Wayne Cordeiro who staffs his church similar to Adventism – 1:250 or so. He totally capitalizes on volunteers…. We need to do the same….
September 25, 2008 at 8:22 am
I have a lot of respect for you and your brother. I’m just glad to be reading your honest and authentic stories and perspectives while Ron and I are in the midst of the church plant here in Vancouver. (We just went to having worship every week.) Please keep writing. It’s a blessing to me and I’m sure many others. And keep us in your prayers as we pray for you. We hope and pray that Epikos will be a church that flourishes in the freedom of this grass roots spiritual movement.
September 26, 2008 at 4:55 am
As I’m hanging out with pastors from all different backgrounds here in the Portland area, I’m finding that whether we’re inside a denominational system or not, church planting is a huge challenge. I hear that other more highly-resourced church planting movements (with little or no politics) still have very low levels of success. They expect lots of failure. They know that success takes time. But they feel it’s worth the risk and the challenge to reach new people instead of reorganizing the sheep into cooler programs and packages.
So I’m entering into this as a rookie, hoping to hear more posts like Steve’s and Gary’s about what you veterans would say to someone like me. What do you wish someone told you going into your first church plant? Thanks for sharing the wisdom and the scars.
Sam
October 29, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Hey Gary,
Long time no see. I hope all is well with you and the family.
Brandi has been telling me to check this out, and I just haven’t made time until now.
I just wanted to give you some more info on Common Ground as it stands now (wasn’t sure if you have been getting any updates from here).
Common Ground is undergoing, what seems to me as, some very harmful changes. I intend harmful to reflect the damage the current direction is doing to the agreed upon vision of the church. I always understood Common Ground to be a non-exclusive church with a real passion for reaching out to the community to help others grow in God. It was all about service, because when you are in the service of God (by joining God where he is working) you have chosen to be in a position that others see and want to be in also.
THIS IS NOT HAPPENING AT COMMON GROUND ANY MORE.
This hurts my heart greatly to see. As you know, I had given up on church; too much traditional “you can’t question that” attitude, too much “all talk and no walk” and way too much hypocrisy. This church is now out to just fill seats and seems to be seeking only SDA’s. There is no longer the close community I was overjoyed to connect with and could relate to. The internal struggle has been tearing at Common Ground and has pulled it off track. The past few weeks have shown about 20 people (give or take) at service. This is including the people that are there for the purpose of running the service (worship, sound, breakfast, pastor, etc.).
Common Ground is becoming one of those churches that people go to so they feel better about going to church. There is no intent beyond “pleasing” God by attending service. This all came about because the focus has been on filling seats, gaining membership (which is exclusive to SDA’s) and collecting more money. The entire back side of the church bulletin is covered with attendance and budget information.
Common Ground is no longer seeking to join God where he is working. Common Ground is trying to bring God to the people. I believe God is much to big to push around and way too heavy for any one church, let alone person, to carry to the masses.
We are no longer doing the good works we were so passionate about. We are not joining God and therefore not making the disciples we once were.
Because of this spiritual change at Common Ground, Brandi and I will be 2 less people filling seats. I know of others with the same intention.
I’m sorry. That seems to have turned into more of a rant that an update.
Along those lines: Brandi, myself and others have been talking about the original mission and vision of Common Ground. We believe God was truly working where we were looking. We have been looking at starting a ministry with the hopes that it will grow into the spiritual community Common Ground was intended to be.
I would like to keep in touch with you for guidance, opinions, some grounding, and any resources you may be able to point us to (in what ever form that may take).
I know you are a busy man and do not want to monopolize your time, but if you could send us a message to let us know what you think.
Jayson
November 4, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Thanks @Jayson for the note.
No, I don’t keep up too much with the news at CG. There are a couple of reasons for that – 1) I need to let the new pastor lead in his/her own armor and it isn’t my job, or calling to continue to lead there; and, 2) It was hard enough to walk away, without watching things change outside of the course we tried to set while we were there.
I know things are different. A lot of that is the function of resources. Because the funding isn’t there to have a full-time, fully trained pastor/leader/coach, there is going to be some great differences in leadership style. That isn’t to say that the current pastor isn’t doing a good job, but it is going to be different. It would have been hard for even the best of pastors to step into those shoes – not because we were “all that,” but because it is different.
My heart hurts for the vision, mission, and values we tried to establish there. But, the fact of the matter is, hopefully individuals were impacted – even if we didn’t fix “all of Christianity and the Adventist Church.”
Really, that’s what we tried to do, but the leadership of the church must have other priorities because they had to make the very difficult choice to not continue funding CG. That’s OK, we served our five years and fulfilled the grant and task we were set upon. I trust my leadership and know that there is only so much they can do.
It was very difficult to walk away. I don’t suspect CG will survive as we intended it. Hopefully, you and Brandi can take what you’ve gained during your time at CG and continue to let Christ make a difference in your lives, and in the lives of those around you.
I would suggest that you make contact with the former Pastor from Central and see if you can join in their grassroots efforts to speak into the lives of others.
I love you guys and I pray that your frustration doesn’t turn into mindless bitterness, but instead that you can release that anger (at the system) into our battle against Satan (See Ephesians 6:10-20).
I miss you all too!